An RTÉ broadcaster  has given his account of when Martin Callinan told him that Maurice McCabe had psychological and psychiatric issues.

Philip Boucher Hayes says then Commissioner Callinan said Sergeant McCabe had done horrific things, the worst kind of things.

Mr Callinan denies saying that.

Mr Boucher Hayes said the Gardaí furnished himself and Gráinne Seoige a list of questions to ask the commissioner in a pre-recorded interview on Crime Call ahead of Christmas 2013.

The broadcaster said the questions were so far removed from what was topical at the time, it was comical.

Mr Boucher Hayes said there were serious issues like penalty points and the closure of Garda stations that they wanted to ask the commissioner about - but the Gardaí presented a united face that hell would freeze over before he would speak about penalty points.

On the commissioner’s arrival at RTÉ, Mr Boucher Hayes said he took him aside, whereupon he was told that Maurice McCabe had psychological and psychiatric issues and had done horrific things - the worst kind of things.

Mr Boucher Hayes told the tribunal that Commissioner Callinan was a reluctant interviewee trying to wriggle out of being held to account on an issue that caused him professional discomfort.

Martin Callinan has denied saying these things  - but Mr Boucher Hayes said he stands by his account.