We’ve spoken about the energy required to run data centres in the past and how AI will drive that energy demand through the roof.  But the sudden arrival of DeepSeek from China seems to suggest that you might not need the type of scale that the US technology giants have been advocating.

 Indeed Deepseek has suddenly forced investors and engineers to think again about how AI can and should work. Karen Hao used to write for the WSJ and The Atlantic and was the first to profile OpenAI before the rest of us had heard of it. Joe spoke to Karen on the show and began by asking her about these externalities associated with AI.