Mathematically Ireland are still in with a chance of qualifying for Euro 2016, but the mood certainly suggests that the Boys in Green will be on the outside looking in at the expanded tournament next summer?

Amid the doom and gloom, are there any bright shoots for fans to look forward to in the future and where have things gone wrong?

The Irish Independent's Dan McDonnell and fellow football writer Dion Fanning of The Sunday Independent joined us on Off The Ball to sift through the fading embers of a qualifying campaign which has failed to flicker under Martin O'Neill.

But the issues run deep as we all know, especially as our last promising generation of talent like Robbie Keane and Damien Duff have either retired or are towards the end of their careers.

"We are in a pretty grim state of affairs," said Dan.

"We are in a situation now, studying Martin O'Neill's teams today, he has tried to integrate Robbie Brady and Jeff Hendrick, the two youngest players in the squad - the only two players in the squad under the age of 25 produced by the system at home - and he's tried to play them wherever he possibly can. But there isn't anyone outside the system that we're banging on the drum about here. There's no outstanding cases that we feel are being ignored here and we have this worrying age profile."

Comparing Giovanni Trapattoni and Martin O'Neill's footballing philosophies in charge of Ireland, Fanning felt the latter's one is less clear and also feels he has been a "disappointment" in some aspects.

"But the overarching story of Irish football goes beyond O'Neill, whether he is doing a good job or bad job. We're all now reaching the point where it has to be accepted that there needs to be a bigger conversation about Irish football and are players being produced. It should have been an urgent matter after Euro 2012," he said. 

Dan also broke down the continuing structural issues at underage level which are hampering a coherent sense of player development.