Jonathan Birch, Associate professor of philosophy at the London School of Economics and principal investigator on the Foundations of Animal Sentience project, joined Sean on the show.

Listen and subscribe to Moncrieff on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts or Spotify.

Download, listen and subscribe on the Newstalk App.

You can also listen to Newstalk live on newstalk.com or on Alexa, by adding the Newstalk skill and asking: 'Alexa, play Newstalk'.