It’s an awful anniversary to have to mark but it’s 4 years since the unprovoked invasion of Ukraine by Russia. Amazingly the Ukrainian economy has stabilised and continues to function as it had to switch to a war economy producing new cutting-edge drone technology.  Joining Joe to discuss this is the Russia expert Jason Corcoran whose new book ‘Leaving Russia’ is published in April.  Also Communications expert Cormac Smith who has worked for the British and Ukrainian governments and knows the latter very well.