Alastair Campbell, Writer, communicator, consultant, strategist spoke to Pat this morning as day two of the Tory Party Conference takes place.
Listen and subscribe to The Pat Kenny Show on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts and Spotify.
Download, listen and subscribe on the Newstalk App.
You can also listen to Newstalk live on newstalk.com or on Alexa, by adding the Newstalk skill and asking: 'Alexa, play Newstalk'.
